Is Proper Medical Device Disposal Really Better Than Ignoring It? | Patrick Kelly, PLAN Medical

Feb 12, 2025

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

medical equipment, excess supplies, auction process, proactive planning, asset disposal,
hospital systems, equipment value, trade-in quotes, capital budget, equipment transfer,
depreciable assets, supply chain, COVID impact, certified appraiser, savings goals

SPEAKERS
Patrick Kelly, Chyrill Sandrini

Chyrill Sandrini 00:14
Welcome back to HTM Insider. As you know, I’m Chyrill, your host with MultiMedical Systems.
And I’m pretty excited about our topic today. Is it something that we haven’t really touched on
before. And maybe some of you are curious out there on what you can do with your assets
when they become end of life, or you just need to get rid of them. Today we have on Patrick
Kelly, and you know, Patrick, I’d like you to introduce yourself to the audience and let them
know your experience with htm and and what you do in general. Welcome on the show.

Patrick Kelly 00:44
Thank you very much. Full name is Patrick Joseph Kelly, and I’ve been in this industry for a little
over 22 years now. I am a licensed auctioneer and certified appraiser. I do apologize if I do talk
a little bit too fast, because I do sometimes have to do the 10-20 got 20 do I have 30 30 do I
have 40-40… the old auctioneer chanting. That’s how we sell a lot of our medical equipment
here home to the highest bidder, as we call it. So my background is, is fairly simple. I grew up
ski patrol, and my mom was a nurse, and I want to work in healthcare, and it was also a little
bit of an environmentalist, and I wanted to figure out a way to on a sustainable front, keep
things out of the landfill, and pick an industry and a vertical, or more or less a niche within
healthcare that that I can really help solve some problems and and so it was 2003 that that I
got into this industry and finding out what happens to all these life saving devices. What do
hospitals do with their old medical equipment? What do hospitals do with their excess supplies?
What what happens? And so the more I got involved into this, I’ve always been an
entrepreneur. I moved down to Fort Lauderdale, Florida to work with my first company there,
and it was called Med marketplace, and was more or less adorable medical equipment
company that had the idea of solving a problem of excess durable equipment. That comes back
and after analyzing the industry, we really found that that there was a much bigger problem to
solve, and that’s within large health systems, IDNs, hospitals that have no plan in place for their
old medical equipment. And as we look into it a little bit further, traditionally, hospitals are kind
of scared about their excess equipment that’s going out as if it can have phi on it, it can end up
in the landfill and they can get fined. So a lot of them were just throwing out all of these, you
know, valuable precious metals or life saving devices, and putting them to landfills. So it
became my personal lifelong mission as to educate health systems on what to do, how to
proactively plan for these assets. And by doing so now I’ve led many companies to whether it’s
an exit or it’s a merger, and the idea is now very simple for the rest of my career. It’s all about
understanding the data that hospitals have and then how to proactively plan for it. So so I’ve
got a lot to talk about today. We can go through as many questions as you’d like to give me,
but I’m a an arsenal of knowledge when it comes to planning for the excess medical equipment
departure.

Chyrill Sandrini 03:41
Well, I love it, and I love the fact that you’re an auctioneer. I would like to play one sometime
on TV. No, just kidding. I try. I talk fast, but I just get tied up with that. It looks, it seems easier
than what it is I’ve tried. I don’t, I don’t think I can do it, but I love to watch auctioneers at work.
So do you have auctions live where people come in and buy the equipment, and is it other
hospital systems are looking to buy the equipment? I’m curious.

Patrick Kelly 04:11
We do so. So currently, we have a few different companies here, and I’m CEO of PLAN Medical.
And our whole goal here of PLAN Medical is to provide hospitals with data so that they can
proactively plan for their access medical equipment, and then, depending on what they want to
do with that equipment, some of them have major storage issues. They’re in huge metropolitan
areas, and they need to get it out right away. If that’s the case, then we’ll bring it to one of our
sister companies. We have a company called Global Medical Auction. We’ve got warehousing in
Austin, in Tampa Bay, Florida, and also in Long Island, New York. And so at that point we could
bring it in, we test the equipment, and we host a monthly auction. At that point, we’re selling to
over 60 different countries. And so we’ve got a very good. At marketing this equipment
worldwide. So depending on the asset, it might stay in the United States, it might go worldwide.
And so that’s the beauty of putting it up for an auction. It’s goes to the highest bidder wherever
they may be. Traditionally, we see about 60% of the equipment stays back in the United States
and and what that is, that they’re either here for part systems trying to keep the existing assets
alive, and those make and models are long passed, manufacture has actually discontinued
those assets. And if they are newer working assets, we know a lot of the big university
hospitals, the more profitable hospitals, they like to replace their equipment, you know, really
every five to eight years and and so if they’re a newer piece of equipment, chances are they’re
going to go back into another facility. And then if it’s a part system or an older piece of
equipment, chances are they go overseas. So couple different methodologies. The way that we
sell is either on site at the hospital location,

Chyrill Sandrini 06:06
Oh, wow. I didn’t know that.

Patrick Kelly 06:08
Yeah, we can do that. And other we can bring it out to one of our locations and host a monthly
auction here. And we used to do the live auction process. It’s actually much more efficient for
us to do an eBay style which is a timed auction and and we host it. They pretty much start in a
Friday, end on a Wednesday, so they’ll be up for sale for five days. And typically on that last
day is when a lot of the action occurs, and people are outbidding each other, and it’s sold to the
highest bidder on that date. So

Chyrill Sandrini 06:41
when you sell it, if you’re selling it for a hospital system who has excess inventory or end of life
inventory, do they get paid?

Patrick Kelly 06:49
Yes, yes. Okay, so depending on how we structure a deal with the hospital, it’s either
consignment, which is we’re partnered up with a hospital, and we put that equipment up for an
auction, and then we take a percentage of the final sale so and typically, if it’s a local, we’ll go
pick it up. If it’s outside of a range, then we’ll charge a shipping fee to get the equipment. We
do white glove service, so they’ll blanket wrap the asset, and they’ll ship it to us, and then from
there, our team here will clean the asset, make sure there’s no PHI on it, and then we’ll put the
equipment up for sale, and we’ll take, you know, up to 10 pictures of the asset, including it
turned on with any screens that shows that the equipment’s in good working order or not
working at all, so that our buyers can have as much information as possible. We do always set
it up so that our buyers can also inspect the assets prior to purchasing an asset, if they want to
come in and check it

Chyrill Sandrini 07:51
out interesting. So if I’m a clinical engineering manager and I have excess beds lining my
hallway that we no longer need, or any medical equipment, for that matter. Am I the person
that reaches out, or is there somebody else at the hospital that reaches out to and how can
clinical engineering htm work in conjunction to make this happen? Sure.

Patrick Kelly 08:13
So really, two sides to the hospital. There’s the financial side and the operations side, financial
planning side is going to be planning for the purchase of the new assets. And typically, what I
like to do is work with with biomed, HTM side, find out what is end of life. We’ll go throughout
any CMMS, and we’ll sort the database by age of equipment, whether or not it’s active,
inactive, retired, and try to give a roadmap to the facility. We know if the Joint Commission
shows up and there’s beds in the hallway or broken defibrillators laying around, they can get
dinged, and that’s what we don’t want so so there’s really two ways we can look at it, and every
hospital is different, depending on who handles asset disposal. Step One for me, when I go in
and consult with a hospital, it’s let me understand your process. Do you have your protocols
documented? That needs to be documented for the Joint Commission the DNV, they’ll come
back and they’ll check on it to make sure that the process is actually documented and that
you’ve got a good process. In this day and age, it’s fairly simple to have a process that has
digital signatures. Why is the equipment coming to the end of life, has biomed checked it out?
Is it too costly to fix? Is it being replaced? What is going on with the asset that it needs to leave
a facility? So from that aspect, we’ll find out if the hospital is either has an outsourced like, like,
like, either your firm or Innovo, or whoever it might be, or it’s they’re an in house hospital, and
in that case, a biomedical team. So we would work with them find out, like I said, What is the
current process and who signs off on it? Sometimes it might require three or four signatures all
the way going up. To a CFO, or it could be vice president supply chain or controller. And in
understanding that process, also understanding what documentation they have, is there an
asset disposal form doesn’t have the proper actual verbiage that prevents any downstream
liability, which means that if an asset is sold, it’ll never come back to the hospital, you know, in
any sort of litigation or any lawsuit. So we check on that verbiage, make sure that it all looks
good, make sure the process is documented. And then moving forward, the way that we really
like to do it is working with a conjunction of the supply chain and biomed. So like I said,
typically, biomed is in charge of doing the preventative maintenance, making sure that the last
entry is in date. That date is very important to us, so we do work with them to find out what
condition the assets are in. And when we sell equipment, we always sell it as-is, where-is so
there is no warranties. There’s nothing about the equipment condition wise, that that that the
buyer of it would ever have to come back to the hospital. So typically, working with biomed to
understand either the last preventative maintenance that’s fully intact, if it’s actually like an
installed imaging piece, we might need to talk to them about any information that we would
need that would help sell the asset. For instance, a CAT scan might have, scan seconds, tube
count, date of installation, any other software or assets that might be coming alongside with it,
you know, in terms of the treadmill or the workstation, things like that. So we get as much
information as possible, and we make it as easy as possible to what we know that typically
biomed is not they’re extremely busy trying to make sure all the assets are working in good
order. So as easy as we can make our process either sending our team in to remove the assets
or to be working with the hospital, like I said, it’s it could be their their loading manager,
sometimes it’s purchasing materials that are going to either point at the asset and say, these
assets need to be removed. So we make a plan in terms of how we’re going to remove it,
understanding, do our trucks need lift gates? Do you have a loading dock? Typical information
like that.

Chyrill Sandrini 08:14
So let me ask you this. You talked a little bit about patient history on a device. Are you in
charge of that, or is the facility in charge of it? And what about removing, like, all identifying
stickers as far as last PM dates, or the company that did the last PM or repair on it? Sure. Do
you guys do that?

Patrick Kelly 12:50
Great question. So Hospital has to buy FDA guidelines is removed. They are responsible, and
biomed is responsible for moving PHI. What we do is a double check. And if there is all of our
agents here in our team have to pass a test that that we give them out which is any asset they
look they turn it on make sure that there’s any PHI. If they do find any, the asset has to go into
quarantine. And then on that we reach back out to the hospital and say, these, these assets
have not been fully, you know, phi removed, and then we could do a couple things. Either we
can remove it ourselves, which is, record a video and send it back. If they’re okay with that,
that’s fine. If not, sometimes they’ll send somebody out, or we’ll send the asset back work,
worst case scenario, but it is nice to know that there is a double check, and that’s what we do
to make sure that that PHI information is not, you know, out open to the public. It does get a
little bit cumbersome. And I will just say this, a lot of manufacturers and sometimes biomeds,
just remove hard drives and and that’s how you destroy the value of an asset. By removing the
software. We can’t boot it up, and it’s hard to sell an asset. So every single piece of medical
equipment has a very simple way to remove PHI on it and and so we encourage hospitals to
remove it properly. We double check that, but please don’t remove hard drives.

Chyrill Sandrini 14:17
That’s a good note. I get. I would, I would say that’d be very important. What about if a hospital
just is closing down, or surgery centers closing down and they just need to get rid of
everything? Is it, I mean, I come from a surgical background, so we’re talking stainless
instrumentation, endoscopes, all that, is that part of it, or is that something different?

Patrick Kelly 14:42
That’s all part of it. Okay, wish we had more time. I’d give you a tour of our warehouse. You
know, we’ve got 30,000 square feet here, and every month there’s an auction. So there’s every
type of piece of medical equipment that you can name, up from esthetic lasers, we even say,
from bedpans to CAT scans and. Um, so it’ll sometimes have boxes filled with surgical
instrumentation. Our team, you know, tries to make kits, puts them back together. If it’s
esthetic lasers, like I said, we’re going to turn them on, check them out. If it’s ultrasounds,
we’re going to try to, like I said, get the most value out of everything possible. So putting them
back together. The one thing we try to avoid, though here is generic IT equipment, which is,
you know, old computers and more or less just patient room furniture, you know, waiting
tables, things like that. But as far as exam tables and any other type of equipment like that, we
bring it all in, OR tables. Clean it. And to answer your question before too take off the stickers. We want to give as little anonymity as possible from our buyers where this equipment is
coming from and so, so we clean the equipment, we take off any stickers, any biomed stickers,
and we put them up for sale.

Chyrill Sandrini 15:58
Now, do you only sell them by auction. Or can someone go on to your site and say, I just want
to buy these 10 beds.

Patrick Kelly 16:08
We can have the ability to do whatever we would like to do. Okay, so my favorite part of this
industry is working with equipment planners that are building new hospitals, new facilities. And
what we see is that a lot of these huge construction budgets go well over their initial cost, and
sometimes the capital budget does get cut, so they need to save money and they’ll reach out
to us. What I’ve done now for 20 plus years is work with pretty much every certified pre owned
vendor in the United States. And so if a hospital wants to buy surgical beds, we know who the
best refurbishers are in the United States, and we can recommend where they buy their
certified, pre owned equipment that comes with anywhere from a one to five year warranty.
They can buy directly from us. Come and inspect the equipment, and if it has a high enough
value, well, we’ll think that it’s worthwhile for us not to put it up to auction, we have the ability
to do that, and that’s up to the auctioneers discretion. AKA me and so so we do also play
matchmaker. And for instance, I liquidated a hospital a couple of years ago outside of Chicago,
and it was a 230 bed facility that shut down, and we had a hospital in Wisconsin that was being
built, and they came in there, and, you know, pretty much wrote a seven figure check to buy,
you know, almost three quarters of the assets. So it was a good deal for everybody, including
the health system, consigning it to us. And then the remaining assets we brought off site and
we liquidated them there. So we do have that ability to do that as well.

Chyrill Sandrini 17:46
That’s awesome. I mean, we know healthcare costs are rising, and it’s not just, you know, the
cost to the patient, but the cost to run a facility. And I love that you’re keeping things out of
landfills and you’re bridging that gap. I think that’s really important. Now, on the planning side,
I’ve heard you talk a little bit about, you know, coming in on the forefront, and then, you know,
looking at end of life. When should they get you involved? When’s the when’s the optimum
time? Or do you just get a lot of last minute calls that say, come get this stuff. I need it gone
today, because DNV is coming next week. Sure,

Patrick Kelly 18:20
a little bit of both. What I prefer when I meet with the hospital, it’s step one. I’ll look in definitive
health care, wherever it may be, and find out what their fiscal year starts, and then 90 days
before that is typically budget season. And as they’re working on budget season, I’m going to
ask for biomed, their end of life report, and and so on, on two fronts here. One is, is it’s the best
to get me engaged early, because having the data is really important for them to understand
how manufacturers behave. How does their trade desk behave? And so before this, I worked
with the company, and we had a partnership with MD byline. And so within MD byline, I got to
analyze over 300 manufacturers and represent their data back to them. It was very interesting.
So I had over 36,000 capital quotes I would take, GE, and I would say, okay, GE, I’m looking at
your quotes, and I can see that the way that you buy back your CAT scans, whether or not it’s
GE buying back their own piece of equipment on a trade in, or are they buying back a Phillips,
Hitachi, Canon, or a Siemens piece of equipment? And I’d analyze it and say that your trade in
works. X, so when I look to a hospital and understand what equipment are you replacing next
year. Step one is, let’s get a fair market value. What is the best way to determine what that
piece of medical equipment is worth? And is a manufacturer giving you a fair deal? If they’re
going to give you a fair deal, then we’d always advise take it. So let’s give you an actual uh a
fair market value or an appraisal on that piece of equipment. So I created something called the
“Kelly Green Book,” and it’s similar to the Kelly Blue Book, and we have a database that we’re
entering all of our auction values, all of our appraised values, into our database, and it helps
me to be able to forecast what these assets are worth. So that, coupled with all the experience
that I have with MD by line, it’s amazing for me to see when the best time to trade in your
Olympus equipment is, or buy new Olympus equipment for that matter. Yeah, so the best time
to get me involved is typically prior to their fiscal year. And then when I do a proactive plan, it’s
you have a plan of what you’re estimated on replacing next year. So then we’re going to go
research what the equipment you are actually replacing, compare that to your end of life
report, and we’re going to evaluate that equipment, and then, more or less understand there’s
no need for excess equipment storage if you’re streamlined. So, you know, typically, hospitals
like to take things out, throw it in storage, and that’s to me, is wasting a lot of time, money,
energy, moving things from one place to another, and this is time that HTM doesn’t necessarily
have, and then it sits and collects dust in another facility. So step one, let’s do a spring
cleaning. Let’s find out any excess. Let’s clean out those old closets. Let’s get rid of anything.
Step two, let’s proactively plan for the following year.

Chyrill Sandrini 18:24
Let me ask you this. It just came to mind. So a large health system, they’ve got 12 hospitals
like now, Hospital A is on this schedule because it was built here. Hospital B and C and D are
over here at different times. Do you help them, like switch equipment or like, this is in your
storage and you need this. So let’s get this over here.

Patrick Kelly 21:48
Yes. Okay, so we’ve built, I’d love to, you know, share eventually, but you can go to some of our
IDN websites, and typically, if I work with an IDN, like HCA 10, and any of them, I’ve worked
with them in the past at previous companies, and what we would do is we’d set up tenant
Health Marketplace, HCAmarketplace.com. At that point, it’s a private, more or less portal that
they can see what’s excess within their health system, and they can internally transfer it. I’m
going to be completely honest with you, it’s less than 1% of the equipment actually gets
transferred from one site to another. So, yeah, it’s great when you’re doing relocations and
closures, but taking equipment actually that’s at the end of its life, and it’s a lot of hospitals are
past life expectancy that equipment needs to more or less go and get recertified and out
almost on secondary markets, rebuilt and then put back into another health system. So it works
great when you have, like I said, a complete facility closure or department closure, and you
want to take that from one site to another, I highly suggest there’s some databases out there
where you can know what relocations are happening in the United States. And typically, when I
present to an IDN, I go back and I pull a list of all their new construction and say, This is what
you’re planning to do next year. Are you still on track for it? And can we help assist with the
transfer of equipment from one facility to another. But typically, when hospitals are getting rid
of assets, we put them up there. It very rarely gets transferred from one to another. And I’m
being brutally honest here. I’ve been doing it for 20 plus years. I we push the whole internal
transfer marketplace feature, and it sounds lovely, but in reality, it’s it’s not necessarily getting
transferred as much as you would think. So we still do. We still help with it, and there’s a time
and place that it works really well. Also, if equipment has not reached the end of its life and it’s
got a high book value, that’s great time, because it’s still got either warranty, and that can go
out into another department within another health system. So we’ll create the technology. We’ll
have the push notification, sending it out to all the materials managers. And if they want to
request an asset, they can and we can also help with the shipping of the asset if need

Chyrill Sandrini 24:13
So is it better to get rid of your equipment prior to end of life as a hospital system?

Patrick Kelly 24:21
Yes. So it’s a couple things. So this is always on my desk. It’s the estimated useful life of
depreciable assets by the AHA guideline. And it’s very interesting concept of a hospital putting
a book value, assigning a capital asset and whether or not it’s fully depreciated if it does have
book value, what does that mean? But more or less, it’s understanding the pattern of the
manufacturer and what’s going on with that. So maybe six months ago, hospitals replacing all
their Baxter pumps, and we let them know that there were some FDA recalls, a bunch of other.
Things. So we recommend doing that sooner than later, because the excess medical equipment
that’s coming onto the market is going to devalue those pumps that you have and and doing
that deal would actually be over seven figures. It’s a little over two and a half million dollars. Wow, yeah, so, and there’s a lot of criteria that comes down to it. If HCA says we’re replacing
all of our pumps or beds or ventilators next year. You’re talking hundreds of 1000s of assets
that are going to hit the secondary market, and the pricing of those is going to fluctuate. So it’s
my job as an appraiser to make sure that I understand what’s happening with this and then
advising hospitals when the best time to actually sell their medical equipment is and very
rarely, it actually goes up in value. But you know, with worldwide pandemics and supply chain
shortages and FDA recalls, there are certain instances where that does happen. And like I said,
advising hospitals while they’re doing their fiscal planning is great to get me involved and I can
share some of that knowledge.

Chyrill Sandrini 26:04
Yeah, that’s awesome. You know, I’m just thinking of was COVID? I imagine that your company
was very busy during COVID, and did you just run out of equipment? Was there any equipment
left on the shelves?

Patrick Kelly 26:19
Lot of different things happen over COVID worldwide. You see a lot of different supply chain
issues. Even the major manufacturers couldn’t get the supplies that they needed to sometimes
make their new equipment. So old equipment was was exponentially, you know, going through
the roof. Everybody needed used beds, and everybody was in panic mode. So we got to help a
lot of facilities acquire old equipment. I mean, we were donating pallets and boxes of, you
know, gloves and and all other stuff that typically wouldn’t have any secondary resale value.
But we were, we were able to at least help and share this equipment with a lot of these
facilities. And also we know where all the equipment is. We know all the different types of
refurbishers and pretty much what their supply chain has on stock, so we can reach out to
them and help connect them with hospitals that are looking for their type of equipment. So
we’ve got a lot of good networking.

Chyrill Sandrini 27:21
That’s awesome. So when an htm director, a system director, a manager of any hospital in
facilities, I would imagine too would be a good connection if they wanted to find out more about
it, what are the steps and how do they reach out? What’s first on the list to do, send you an
email? Call you?

Patrick Kelly 27:43
sure they can either send to info at PLAN medical. You can reach out to me directly, to directly
Patrick@PLANmedical.com and and with that, you know, within 24 hours, we’re back to them
and whatever they might need, if they have a list of assets that they’re looking for an appraisal
on if they have a big capital project coming up. If they want to get proactive, they know Jayco is
coming, and they got to figure out what is excess. And typically, hospitals aren’t in the business
of selling old medical equipment. So it’s a very tricky thing. One of my favorite things about
what I do is I’m not trying to sell a hospital something. I’m trying to get hospitals back money
so they like me because we’re giving them back towards their savings goals, we’re actually
able to write them checks going back that can help the bottom line. So so it’s a good way to
look at what we’re doing as we don’t cost anything. And I think it’s also really fair for me to say
that with capital planning, every procurement manager, every materials supply chain director,
has a savings goal. And so when I do proactive planning, it’s, it’s it’s a it’s a hard thing for me. I
always ask a hospital, how much money did you get back in your excess medical equipment
last year? That includes trade ins, includes anything. And very rarely do they understand what
that that number is. You know, they don’t know. And so we typically like to put a savings goal
five to 10% of their capital spent.

Chyrill Sandrini 29:16
That’s a big number. Yeah,

Patrick Kelly 29:18
AHA In 2017 said, the average 100 bed hospital spends about ten million in capital equipment
per year. So there could be an additional $500,000 per 100 bed facility. That goes back to the
bottom line. So and also, if hospitals like to donate equipment, it’s a very interesting thing that
that they like to do. And when we look at it, and for years and years and years, we we see there
might be a disaster, there might be a earthquake in Haiti, and all sudden, they’re like, alright,
send all of our equipment down there. You’re sending broken defibrillators and old stuff that
may or may not work. They don’t need. At typically, the best thing to do is to sell the assets
and to give them the money that way they can buy the supplies or anything that they actually
need, or to buy a refurbished piece of equipment. So typically, a lot of these hospitals donate
medical equipment, and those third party donation companies reach out to us to sell the assets
and then buy the equipment that they need. So it’s also really important for hospitals to get
appraisals. They can theoretically get a tax write off. If they’re for profit, it’s an 8283 form. I am
a certified appraiser, so I’ll fill out an evaluation, give it back to them. And even if they’re not
for profit, they can also show the community that they’re giving back on a monetary level. So
having that certified appraisal is very important for getting rid of that old medical equipment,
you know, like I said, non for profit or for profit.

Chyrill Sandrini 30:54
We know I’ve loved talking with you today, Patrick, on this topic, I think it’s very important to
keep these devices out of our landfills and to keep our patient history safe and to get moneys
back into our hospitals. So I think there’s so much more to discuss and uncover what you do.
I’m interested in seeing you do the auctioneer deal, so make sure you send me the next link so
I could watch not that I’m buying anything, but I’m interested to see how it all works, sure. Um,
with that, you know, it’s been a pleasure having you on today, but we always finish every
episode of htm insider with a wow. Words of wisdom. So, Patrick, what do you have for us
today?

Patrick Kelly 31:36
My Words of wisdom would be try to solve pain, undercover problems, and that’s been my my
whole thing in my career is just try to make people’s lives easier and solve that, whether it be
technology or service. So if I interview any hospital, their system directors will keep some up at
night. Might be Jayco coming in. Might be their, you know, mismanaged inventory. It might be
their, you know, old equipment. It might be their, their their budgets that are, that are off and
and helping them solve any sort of pain that they have, making their lives easier. So if you can
find the pain and you can solve some problems, you’re going to do well also by, you know, making money and helping them in the same time.

Chyrill Sandrini 32:21
I love it. I love it, and we’ll make sure to post your contact information with this podcast. If you
guys have any questions or you can’t find Patrick, contact me, and I’ll make sure you get in
touch with him. You know, it’s something to take back to your teams, to your leaderships, and
say, can we think about this differently? This is a good question to ask. And htm, you deserve
to be in this conversation because you can make a difference.

Patrick Kelly 32:46
Savings goals, bring money back to the hospitals, get that proactively planned in advance. Yep,

Chyrill Sandrini 32:52
I love it planning, right? So thank you all again for tuning in to another episode of htm Insider. We hope you enjoyed today’s episode. You can find us any place you listen to your favorite
podcast, and including YouTube, check us out on multi medical systems com, where all the
episodes are listed. And if you’re looking for CE credits, make sure you share with your friends
that are C bets that if they listen through tech nation, that if any of the podcasts those they’re
all on there. You get one CE credit for each episode. Patrick, thanks again for coming on today,
and I look forward to talking to you again in the future.

Patrick Kelly 33:30
Great. Thank you so much. Thank you.